NOTE: The following WING TV interview was broadcast on August 30, 2005, and it clearly shows how the OKBIC has been corrupted, thus preventing the ultimate truth about the OKC bombing to be realized by a significant portion of American citizenry.

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Victor Thorn: We’re doing this show today with a heavy heart.

Lisa Guliani: Yes.

Victor Thorn: In fact, this is probably the most disappointed we’ve ever been since we started doing WING TV, because someone that we had a whole lot of faith in, someone that we trusted and someone that we considered - and still do consider - a good friend is taking a turn for the worse.

Lisa Guliani: Victor and I don’t have a lot of faith in many people, but we really like this person very much. We still like him. It’s unfortunate, though, that he’s now aligning himself with 9-11 gatekeepers, and this has been the most difficult show that I’ve had to do so far.

Victor Thorn: We’ve brought this up to other people, and it seems like this individual - his name’s Chris Emery - is being seduced by the 9-11 gatekeepers. And I’ll ask, when you see somebody going down a dangerous path, what do you do? Do you stay silent, or do you try to draw them back and show them that they should get back on the path of truth?

Lisa Guliani: The worst thing about it is that Chris Emery, who is with the Oklahoma City Bombing Investigative Committee (OKBIC), knows damn well that these people at 911Truth.org are gatekeepers. He knows this. And I have proof because of emails he’s sent to me.

Victor Thorn: Yes, and we’re going to get to that in a little bit. We’ve tried talking to Chris Emery about this, especially in the last few days, and we don’t know if this is the case, per se, or not. But, has somebody gotten to him, or as somebody else said to us, has he been seduced by these gatekeepers? Let me give you an analogy. What if there was a band of arsonists and they went around the city setting fire to all the buildings. Then, there was another group of people who tried to have these arsonists arrested and convicted, but every time they tried to do something, there was a third group that protected the arsonists. This third group that was covering for the arsonists stopped all the progress. Well, what would happen if one of the good people in your group started siding with the cover-up artists?

Lisa Guliani: And started helping the first group get away with setting fires.

Victor Thorn: How would you feel about that? This is what we’re faced with right now. Here’s another example: what if there was a talk show host on AM radio, say out in Dayton, Ohio. He’s earning $35,000 a year … making a living, but nothing spectacular. But then the “powers that be” in the NWO see that this guy has some value, that they can use him. So they send him two round trip tickets to New York City, wine him and dine him, put him up in a big hotel, and get him a limo. Then they ask him, “Hey, do you like this kind of lifestyle? If you do, why don’t you side with us?” The big question we have to ask right now is: why is Chris Emery aligning himself with the 9-11 Mafia? Why?

Lisa Guliani: Right. Chris Emery told us months ago that he was going to Ground Zero on 9-11, and subsequently, we announced that on our show. We were very proud to stand with Chris Emery, as we felt that he was an unimpeachable source of integrity and a great person. Now he has changed his tune and he’s going to be hanging out with the gatekeepers in Colorado, like “Mr. Mamby-Pamby” Michael Wolsey of Colorado 9-11 Visibility.

Victor Thorn: He told us that the reason he was going there is because they’re buying him a round trip ticket, and they’re also going to put him up. At WING TV, we don’t have the money to buy round trip tickets for anybody.

Lisa Guliani: And when we put someone up who travels here, we put them up on our couch. We can’t afford a hotel room for these people, and we don’t have friends with big houses to accommodate such free arrangements.

Victor Thorn: We talked to Emery about this last week, and in an e-mail he said that he not only respects us, but he also respects the people in the 9-11 Truth Mafia, these war criminals.

Lisa Guliani: That remark is enough to send me up the wall. That drives me crazy, because I don’t know how a man (in good conscience) like Chris Emery, who does have a conscience, can respect people who are perpetuating a criminal cover-up of mass murder.

Victor Thorn: We have no respect whatsoever for these individuals. They’re like the people who are covering up for the arsonists. That’s what the 9-11 Truth Mafia - these war criminals - are doing. They’re covering up for the criminals. Chris Emery gave us a good example of this: when we were down at the D.C. Truth Convergence, the day after we left, they had some seminars. Emery was talking about ordnances (explosives) in the Alfred P. Murrah building in Oklahoma City. Well, one of the 9-11 Mafia members, Jan Hoyer, was in attendance. When she heard Emery say that, Emery told us that she rolled her eyes and stormed out of the room because she didn’t want to hear this kind of stuff. Jan Hoyer’s also the one that deleted all of our pictures from the OKC photo gallery. Now, we had our 14-foot banner with us down there in D.C. Not one picture of this was included in their photo gallery. Why? That’s the same exact thing the mainstream media does. They exclude information and keep it from you. That’s the role of a gatekeeper. Jan Hoyer should be embarrassed and ashamed to do that.

Lisa Guliani: Speaking of Jan Hoyer, 9-11 activist and political author Michael Langston was also at the OKC Bombing Day of Truth event back in April 2005 along with us. He remembers Jan Hoyer confusing the numbers of the planes that hit the buildings on 9-11-01 (the flight numbers) when she was up on stage speaking to the audience at that conference. How familiar are these people with the information if they can’t even get the flight numbers right?

Victor Thorn: That’s just like Janice Matthews, one of the members of 911Truth.org, who organizes some of these events. She’s organizing one in Kansas City to be held in the fall, I believe. It’s another 9-11 gatekeeper event. Well, I sent her a copy of 9-11 on Trial, and she hasn’t even read it. The controlled demolition of the WTC towers is the crux issue of 9-11, and she hasn’t even read about it. Another example of the blatancy of these gatekeepers has to do with Kyle Hence. He tried to worm his way into the speakers’ forum at the OKC event. Well, Chris Emery (before they got to him), flatly turned Kyle Hence down. Here are some of the comments he made about this guy, Kyle Hence.

Lisa Guliani: Emery also asked Victor, me, and author John Kaminski our impressions of Kyle Hence, and we gave him our impressions, which is why Hence was not allowed to speak at the OKC speakers’ forum, although he did try to worm his way in there.

Victor Thorn: Emery said he didn’t want any gatekeepers speaking at that event.

Lisa Guliani: In an e-mail to me dated March 19, 2005, Chris Emery said this about Kyle trying to worm his way in there. He said, “I look at it in one of two ways, and this is a real short menu to choose from. a) Charles (Charles Key, head of OKBIC) was blowing smoke up someone’s rear end and pulled the email and phone call he got from Hence out of the clear blue, which was followed up by his ten minute conversation with me about him (Hence) and what I thought of him, which was followed by my call to you (Lisa Guliani) within 45 seconds thereafter, asking your opinion of Mr. Hence. Or, b) Mr. Hence is a pathological liar. Emery follows that by saying “Mr. Hence is a moron.”

Victor Thorn: Yes, and there are plenty of other things he’s said in these e-mails, too.

Lisa Guliani: Yes, he said Hence is a weenie, that he’s counterproductive and detrimental to the movement; that he ass-kisses with political movers and shakers; and tries to ass-kiss with members of Congress that don’t give a rip about 9-11. This is what Chris Emery thinks of 911Truth.org and Kyle Hence. Emery also calls Mike Ruppert (peak oil scam artist and 9-11 Gatekeeper) a weenie in these emails.

Victor Thorn: We understand that Emery and all of us have limited time and money. So, considering the limited amount of time and money, why is he choosing to spend his time siding with gatekeepers instead of truth-tellers?

Lisa Guliani: If you have limited time and money, why don’t you channel your efforts and energies toward the people who are trying to tell the truth, rather than people who are perpetuating the LIE?

Victor Thorn: On 9-11-05, Emery’s going to Colorado to be with Michael Wolsey. Well, we did an interview with Michael Wolsey on WING TV on August 8, 2005, and at one point he said that we don’t really know what happened on 9-11. Guess what? We DO know what happened. It was a controlled demolition. Yet all of these 9-11 gatekeepers keep repeating this mantra of “we don’t know what happened”.

Lisa Guliani: We saw back in April (2005) at the OKC Truth event that these people (9-11 Truth Mafia) were trying to co-opt the OKC people and that event. We saw this. And subsequently, our names and website were removed from their press release and the flier. We said something about Bob Barr’s presence at this event, and we blame his presence there totally on Charles Key.

Victor Thorn: Wolsey was also the person that refused to denounce Kyle Hence. So what they do is; they all stick together like Company Men, and the reason why they’re trying to co-opt Emery and the OKBIC is because this 9-11 Truth Mafia has been so discredited and so exposed as phonies that they need to find someone that’s squeaky clean.

Lisa Guliani: Right, so you have Chris Emery, who’s “Mr. Clean-Shiny-Sparkly”, a man with a conscience and an “unimpeachable” source, and you have 911Truth.org, who isn’t worth the paper to wipe you’re butt with, who needs somebody to bolster their sagging, deflated credibility. So they sidle up and hook themselves to Mr. Clean.

Victor Thorn: What they’re doing is using Chris Emery, and he can’t be this naive not to see it.

Lisa Guliani: No.

Victor Thorn: By Emery attending and/or helping to organize their events, he’s supporting the gatekeepers and condoning what they’re doing. And in the process, he is giving them credibility through his association with, and endorsement of, them. That is something totally inexcusable to be doing. Chris, you can’t be doing that. Expose these people for what they are.

Lisa Guliani: Right. You can’t play both sides against the middle. You have to get off the fence. Another issue is our website and the section dealing with the OKC Bombing. It was created by us just for the OKBIC.

Victor Thorn: Yes, but first let me say this: anyone that sits in the middle of the road - and that’s what Emery is doing, he’s sitting in the middle of the road trying to play both ends against the middle - but you end up getting run over when you do that. We’ve warned him and warned him countless times...

Lisa Guliani: And he’s agreed with us.

Victor Thorn: He does agree with us because there’s so much evidence against these gatekeepers. Read what 9-11 researcher and activist Nico Haupt’s written. Go into our WING archives and read what we’ve done. It’s all right there. Nobody can say that they didn’t know.

Lisa Guliani: 9-11 researcher Rabbi Philo had a very good article a few months back on the same subject.

Victor Thorn: Chris Emery isn’t a mindless idiot. He knows this stuff, so we have to wonder why he’s now consorting with the enemy. We also asked Emery to contribute to a controlled demolition project we’re going to do sometime in the future. He agreed with us right off the bat to do this.

Lisa Guliani: We asked him to do a short video presentation on controlled demolition at the Murrah building.

Victor Thorn: He thought it was a super idea at the time. But as everybody knows, the 9-11 Mafia never talks about controlled demolition, and now for some reason they’ve gotten Emery to back out of the project. He makes excuses about why he’s not going to do it now, but come on.

Lisa Guliani: The whole thing is; they don’t want to have anything to do with anyone who has anything to do with us. See, so you get the ultimatum there. If you’re gonna be with us, you can’t be with them.

Victor Thorn: Right; and we place a lot of this blame on a man named Charles Key. He’s been on our show before, and the first time we knew something was wrong with Charles Key was at the dinner in OKC in April, the night before the speakers’ forum. That’s when Key brought in a guy named Bob Barr.

Lisa Guliani: As in Bob Barr, who used to work for the CIA.

Victor Thorn: Yeah, Bob Barr was in the CIA for seven years. They paid him a $2,000 honorarium to be the keynote speaker at this event, and they put him up in this swanky hotel. We saw the hotel.

Lisa Guliani: Yes, we went there with Chris Emery to pay for his room reservation.

Victor Thorn: Think about it. We traveled to Oklahoma City on a bus, and they’re putting the CIA guy up at this hotel and giving him $2,000. We also knew something was wrong with Key when we were informed that our website and our names had been removed from all of the advertising and all of the fliers for this OKC event. They took our names off right before the event.

Lisa Guliani: And that whole rally was our idea in the first place.

Victor Thorn: Emery said that Charles told him the reason our names/website were removed was because Bob Barr wasn’t happy with our “Zionist” stance. Yet, John Kaminski’s name was left on, and John Kaminski’s written a thousand times more about Zionism than we have.

Lisa Guliani: And his writing about Zionism is more abrasive than ours. But they left his name on. They also kept his name on the press release, and subsequently John Kaminski ditched their event altogether and never went. He bailed out of it and didn’t tell the truth about why he didn’t go.

Victor Thorn: Exactly. When we did meet Bob Barr, we mentioned we were from WING TV. He wasn’t even familiar with it. Either he’s a real good liar, or... He was like, “WING TV, what’s that?” So, who was telling the lies here? Somebody was, and it was either Barr or Charles Key. Another thing that’s really suspicious is that the OKBIC website has no links to all of the interviews that these OKBIC people did with us.

Lisa Guliani: We created the OKC section of our website specifically for them. We put all their information about press conferences, upcoming events and the many interviews we did with OKC survivors and OKBIC committee members on that section. The whole point of this - and we all mutually agreed on this - was to get the information out to as many people as possible. Well, why aren’t they linking to any of that information on their website? They’re defeating the sole purpose for putting it up there to begin with. Also, they don’t direct people to that information when they appear on radio shows, which is mind-boggling.

Victor Thorn: These interviews we did with them are the best out there, and they come right from the survivors’ and researchers’ own mouths. Yet, there’s no link to it. They also have no information about this book, this chapbook I wrote on the subject called The OKC Bombing-Elohim City Connection. Michael Collins Piper said this is the most valuable piece of information about the OKC bombing, yet no link to it whatsoever. Somebody is doing a big job there of covering up this vital information. Chris Emery says every time we ask him that Charles Key is the one in charge of it. Why is he keeping this information from the public?

Lisa Guliani: We also noticed that they don’t talk about the internal ordnances - the bombs in the Murrah building - unless we pressure them to do so.

Victor Thorn: Yeah, Charles Key was a representative for the state of Oklahoma before he got voted out. He gave a big press conference a week or so before the tenth anniversary of the OKC bombing, right in front of the weeping Jesus statue. They had the mainstream media from OKC City there and not once did he mention the crux issue of the OKC bombing: the controlled demolition. We were watching the video Emery sent to us of the press conference, and we were like: What’s he doing? He mamby-pambied through the whole thing. He had a chance right in his hands, and again he covered it up.

Lisa Guliani: He seems to be perpetuating a LIHOP (incompetence/negligence angle).

Victor Thorn: Yeah.

Lisa Guliani: Meanwhile, there’s some mistrust within the ranks of the OKBIC itself for Charles Key. In fact, we were talked to by somebody who is a member while we were in Okalahoma City back in April.

Victor Thorn: That was Hoppy Heidelberg.

Lisa Guliani: The dismissed federal grand juror from Timothy McVeigh’s trial.

Victor Thorn: He said that Charles Key approached him to ask if he would contribute money toward bringing Bob Barr, the CIA guy, in for this event.

Lisa Guliani: And Hoppy Heidelberg was furious about it. He had smoke coming out of his ears.

Victor Thorn: He said no, absolutely not! Now, at this speakers’ forum, Bob Barr was, as we mentioned, the keynote speaker. After his speech, he took some questions from the audience. This was a dinner for the high-rollers. Charles Key has political aspirations, and he wanted to bring in some of the money people, so they threw some softball questions to Bob Barr. Then Hoppy Heidelberg, Lisa, and I started asking questions, and we were bangin’ it out for him. Finally, Bob Barr said that he believes the government’s version of events [in regard to the OKC bombing]. So Charles Key brought in a former CIA member that reinforced the government’s explanation.

Lisa Guliani: No, he PAID a CIA guy to come in and defend the government. Hoppy Heidelberg was furious about it, and so were we.

Victor Thorn: Chris Emery also told us that there was going to be a rally on the anniversary of the bombing, which was our initial idea. Funny thing was; Charles Key wasn’t there. Emery said that Charles Key didn’t want anything to do with the rally.

Lisa Guliani: So why is Charles Key disassociating himself from his own rally?

Victor Thorn: It’s unbelievable. Hoppy Heidelberg asked us, when they brought Bob Barr in, who stood to profit from this? Did the truth stand to profit? Absolutely not, because Bob Barr spit on the truth. Did the survivors or any of the people at the rally benefit from this? No. The only person who benefited from the entire scenario was Charles Key, because Bob Barr still has connections in D.C., and Charles Key wants to ride on his coattails. It’s unbelievable. There are so many other things Hoppy was talking about, too. Like how it took so long to print up the big OKC book, Final Report, and then three weeks after its release, 9-11 happened and that pretty much put the whole thing onto a back shelf.

Lisa Guliani: We know that Chris Emery doesn’t call the shots when it comes to the OKBIC. He’s a very tireless worker, and as I’ve said before, he’s a great person. Charles Key is the one who calls the shots with the OKBIC, and I think he’s leading them all down the whole LIHOP path of destruction. It’s a shame because a lot of people believe in Charles Key, Chris Emery, and the OKBIC’s efforts to get the truth out. Well then, why the hell aren’t they getting the truth out? And why are they siding with freakin’ gatekeepers?

Victor Thorn: I spoke with a journalist out in Oklahoma last week and asked him about Charles Key and the OKBIC. He said this is the biggest joke there is anywhere because all the people in Oklahoma City are sick of Charles Key for sitting on the fence. He threatens to bring the hammer down, but then he mamby-pambies it. It’s been ten years. This case is solved. My book, which is on the WING TV website home page, is free. You don’t even have to buy it. The case is solved and Charles key is not bringing this information out. General Ben Partin has all of the information about the controlled demolition of the Murrah building. They’re not talking about this stuff. Even Pat Shannon from the American Free Press was talking with us and Hoppy Heidelberg, and he said he got a real weird vibe when they brought in Bob Barr. It’s inexcusable.

Lisa Guliani: We wanted to say something about all this back in April, and the reason we didn’t was because of our friendship and respect for Chris Emery, and also our respect for the truth and the bigger cause. So we kept our mouths shut because we didn’t want to do anything that would take away from their anniversary event and all their efforts and hard work. So we kept our mouths shut, but over the last few months we’ve sat back and watched and listened and seen the way people are diverging off and going down the wrong path.

Victor Thorn: One last thing that Charles key does is every time he gives a speech, he always brings up the “Arab” element. It wasn’t Arabs that did Oklahoma City. It absolutely was not. It was these people that were working for the ATF, the FBI, and the CIA out of Elohim City. These people were Aryans. They were white race purists. Ask yourself, how many times have you seen them working with Arabs? They don’t. What Charles Key is doing at every opportunity, is bringing up the Arab element. He’s just reinforcing the neo-cons because the neo-cons want to wage war against the Muslim world, so by saying that there was an Arab that was John Doe #2, what he’s doing is aligning himself with the neo-cons and diverting again away from the real solutions and answers.

Lisa Guliani: I guess for somebody with political aspirations, it doesn’t behoove him (Key) to go out and talk about the truth, because if you talk about that, you don’t end up back in some kind of position in the government.

Victor Thorn: As we said at the beginning, we do this with a heavy heart. We want to appeal directly to Chris Emery. Chris, everybody knows that these people you’re running around with right now are 9-11 Mafia gatekeepers. They’re covering up the greatest crime ever committed against the United States of America, and you’re aligning yourself with them. In good conscience, get away from them.